Neo Goth
by asesino, 02.04.04 06:41 am
"I hear your call. I feel your yearning. I am with you." —Barnabas Collins in Dark Shadows
Of course goth is cool, culty, rock n rolly, embracing the debased, the gnarly, the transgressive, but also somehow domesticated, campily familiar, like a poster of Rocky Horror, the singing vampire, taped on the wall in the suburban basement. Goth is self consciously trashy, wallows in old forms, is nostalgic for the Cure, Spandau Ballet, New Wave, death metal posters, black rock t-shirts with red jagged letters, tattoos, piercings and other mortifications of the flesh and spirit. Goth is fashionably pessimistic.
Romanticism, figuration, narrative all feed into goth. It will be a component at the Whitney, and many group shows that opened in January, as if in anticipation of the Biennial, either flirt with goth or embrace it outright. Scream at Kern, but also J. Connelly, Greene Naftali, Lombard Fried, Gorney Bravin Lee, D'Amelio Terras. Olaf Breuning at Metro for sure, M. Quinn at Boone maybe.
Been thinking along these lines for a little while. Now that Jerry Saltz has weighed in with a review in the Voice, it seems the whispering is loud enough for even the mainstream to hear.
Re: Neo Goth
by stephenlauf (02.04.04 10:46 am)
Oh goodie. Now I know what I'm doing today. Finally my Dark Shadows Series of 1985 will be documented at Museumpeace. "Angelique's coffin is at stake," and just wait till you see the phantom opera buffs.
chop chop
[When I got my first answering machine, also back in 1985, I used to record the greeting with the TV on in the background. Remember when NJN, the New Jersey Network, was rebroadcasting DARK SHADOWS every night at 6:30? Anyway, at one fortuitous greeting recording, after saying please leave your message, a voice from the TV in the background then asked, "Quentin, is that you?" As a result, people used to leave the funniest messages.]
Wonder what my Goth would be like these daze.
Re: Neo Goth
by welchsonnyo (02.04.04 11:35 am)
I think the neo goth, stick is a fine example of goth. There's lots of room for the creative minds of young people to expand. Imagination is more important than knowledge-Albert Einstine.
Re: Neo Goth
by asesino (02.04.04 11:42 am)
I also had Barnabas on my answering machine for a while. It makes a good outgoing message.
Re: Neo Goth(ic architecture)
by stephenlauf (02.04.04 03:09 pm)
omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu/
Re: Neo Goth
by maxim (02.04.04 03:27 pm)
www.collective.dreamhost.com/
Re: Neo Goth
by rasputin (02.04.04 04:07 pm)
It is good to hear your voices, as the winter light is wan, and I never arise before the light's waning hours.
Goats blood gives me no succor, and I find I must go out to seek finer fare. But when innocent lambs are dropped at my doorstep, the temptation is great.
I am amused the twin straw s hit the strawberry shake for Jerry this time. But not into the lamb of innocence, the anabolic steroid lamb of the apocalypse.
If I be of mainstream sensibility, it is only because I live in a small chicken-footed shack off in the Urals. Satelites swarm like fire flies over my head.
The former tenant is, of course, deceased these many years. Sometimes she scratches at the floorboards like a horney eyed litch. Pit. Pendulum. Need I mention the hand of glory that sits atop my mantle piece? It's flame points the way, unerringly, to many a fine treaure.
Often I wear the cast-off garments of another generation. I would eschew my musty garb for the attire of the true dandy - a Brooks Brothers suit, What a fine figure I would cut then! But alas, no designer frames encircle my lenses.
Like Jerry, I scuttle crab-like from one enclave of fashion to the next, my shell armor fashioned by an inner metabolic process.
When I was poisoned, shot and stabbed, shot again, then drowned and left for dead, I found the experience not altogether unpleasant. The bullets were real, and real love had gone into the making of the gun and bullet. Real hands, with real feelings tugged me this way and that. It was not until then that I realized I had been anesthetized by the environs of the palace.
But in regards to the ascendant, were giant cracks to appear in the various houses, I imagine there would be a modest torchlit pilgrimage to see them.
I am sharpening my pitchfork for the occasion.
Re: Neo Goth
by stephenlauf (02.04.04 04:40 pm)
Jim Williams (one of the main characters of AFTERLIFE ADDRESS OF CHOICE) owned the dagger that castrated Rasputin.
www.kinoweb.de/
www.paulkatcher.com/
"Make that just a pinch."
requests your presence
by blanket (02.04.04 04:52 pm)
quiet time/ruckus fun
quiet time/ruckus fun
quiet time/ruckus fun
quiet time/ruckus fun
quiet time/ruckus fun
Re: Neo Goth
by BPrevidi (02.04.04 05:01 pm)
Saltz is a little slow on his uptake. Christopher Grunenberg charted and mapped the emergence of a new Goth aesthetic at the ICA in Boston way back in 1997 with an exhibition appropriately titled "Gothic".
last one in the castle is a rotten egg
by stephenlauf (02.04.04 05:07 pm)
Re: Neo Goth
by asesino (02.04.04 05:31 pm)
Doesn't "Modern Gothic" sound more like a typeface than a mini-movement? Jerry could have done better. If not Neo Goth, then Novus Gothikus or Porticus Adventum Gothik.
I, Barnabas, lie in deep sleep on my bed of purple velvet.
Asleep, but awake to your thoughts,
your feelings,
your desires.
Alone, but cradled by the presence of your mind.
I hear your call. I feel your yearning.
I know that you want me. I know that you need me.
The oppressing weight of long lost time lies heavily upon me.
The deepening gloom that covers me, binds me in my sepulcher.
I hear your call. I feel your yearning.
I must go to you.
I struggle to free the invisible chains that bind me.
I search in the embalmed darkness for a nebulous light
that will lead me to you.
"This game still has the fangs."
by stephenlauf (02.04.04 05:39 pm)
cgi.ebay.com/
for ages 6 to 14 (their blood tastes the best anyway)
Re: Neo Goth
by asesino (02.04.04 06:24 pm)
Damn. Modern Gothic IS a font. www.buyfonts.com/
It is also a school of historicist architecture
collections.ic.gc.ca/
a literature course
faculty.smu.edu/
a furniture style
www.modern-furniture.afurniture.net/
and more
www.geocities.com/
www.geocities.com/
www.coldbacon.com/
by zip (02.04.04 07:10 pm)
Of course Goth is largely a middle class suburban thing (like punk in the US). Or a youth culture thing. You don't see conservative old richies prancing about in black leather...
Anyways, goth is hard to do right - its ersatz unless you have the money for crushed velvet, black candles and other assorted props. Eyes wide shut. Production values.
Which leads one to the sort of white wedding/shotgun wedding thing. Eloping seems the better option when faced with cheap imitations.
So when the retail outlets try to get it right (in any genre), they have to hire a buyer.
When you get a business owner who is also into what they sell, it shows. As opposed to a business owner who is into selling. This is common sense and readily apparent, but its nice to state it. Chelsea, for example, does a good job of making Art seem like a handshake.
But back to the top - goth is suburban middle class, and the art world is suburban middle class, so it stands to reason that goth should have its turn in the store window. What do you think?
There's the girl that wears elf ears, she might know, elves know a lot, because they take seminars and stuff.
Re: Neo Goth
by zip (02.04.04 08:01 pm)
But Goth has been so debased. Back in the day you could have a catered catacomb orgy. Maybe the stuff in the galleries is just a teaser.
Re: Neo Goth
by penelope (02.04.04 08:08 pm)
Dont even think about it. Just enjoy it
www.lagubiayeltas.net/
www.madonnainn.com/
by zip (02.04.04 08:33 pm)
www.madonnainn.com/
I'm more peasant stock, myself. Noble savage and all that.
Re: Neo Goth
by all i got was this lousy (02.04.04 08:58 pm)
i have a hard time biting that it is a result of '911' ... kinda falls into the everyone has been through it only
one day you have to get a job categories - no ? if we are talking about work more "suburbia, Dungeons and Dragons, Doom, Ann Rice, teenage angst, masculine overdrive, and the Cure, not Poe and Hawthorne."
.. i so had sex in graveyards and was in to bloodletting (which lost alot of its appeal after learning about Aids) - who didn't ? right now i am reminiscing by seeing how many holes i still have in my body ... the mouth and nose never grow over... tonge eyebrow and nipple however... like it never happened. Perhaps i will stop by Tiffany's for some diamond studs on my way home. "Forever what?"
i guess if you gotsta get your 'poe' on, ... on the other hand...
by all i got was this lousy (02.04.04 09:09 pm)
www.whitney.org/
www.whitney.org/
Part of The Contemporary Series, the exhibition is organized by Debra Singer, associate curator of contemporary art. Singer noted, "Several eclectic sources served as inspiration for this piece, including contemporary 'Goth' rock styles, the 19th-century writings of Edgar Allan Poe, and most evidently, Richard Serra's Tilted Arc. Working in tandem, Deep Purple's various associations convey an underlying melancholy or mourning for a bygone time of more expansive possibilities for public art."
the scream of a
by all i got was this lousy (02.04.04 09:32 pm)
home.worldonline.dk/
don't you know that I'll always be true?
Oh, won't you come with me
and take my hand?
Oh, won't you come with me
and walk this land?
Please take my hand!
bloody mary bloody mary bloody mary
by all i got was this lousy (02.04.04 10:22 pm)
so someone just told me that "all the 'great horror movies' and reel 'ghosts' in the 80's were connected to energy from the cold war and concept absolute evil"
www-hsc.usc.edu/
by zipthwung (02.05.04 06:29 am)
Your charms will not protect you from these spirits my friend.
Goth - word juvenilia comes to mind. The truth or maybe it's stodgy to think that age, on the whole, changes tastes for the better. Poisoning yourself with various elixers loses its allure. Which is why old drunks like to drink adult drinks like wine that tastes like the dirt the grapes came from. Mmmmm, dirt. Let me show you my cellar sometime. I have a cask for you.
Either that or you go for instant coffee, tang, sliced bread, and the nail straightening mentality of the depression era.
I Can't Help But Deceive You Little Girl.
deeper
by blanket (02.05.04 02:46 pm)
"He had a weak point — this Fortunato — although in other regards he was a man to be respected and even feared. He prided himself on his connoisseurship in wine."
Re: Neo Goth
by artful dodger (02.05.04 03:01 pm)
www.sanjacinto106.tx-mm.org/
Where's the hoodies?
Re: Neo Goth
by MJekabson (02.05.04 03:16 pm)
I guess Id like to think there is more going on in any given artwork than an advertisement for a sensibility, probably is more going on. But to 'read' an image and only wind up with an hypothesis of the lifestyle (and resulting 'aesthetic') of its creator seems limiting, both to the artist and the viewer. My worst fear is that goths, hippies, and hip-hoppers will be mutually turned off by the 'look' of each others work and be unable to appreciate the formal and conceptual meanings encased in the style. I dont know. Whatever.
Re: Neo Goth
by bianca troll (02.05.04 05:19 pm)
yea, now that Jerry has wrote about it.... BARF
excuse me not feeling too well. I missed the article, were these goth's his students?
SHOE GAZING
REHASH
REDUX
Re: Neo Goth
by tagent (02.05.04 05:22 pm)
Kelly O bought this:
graphics.ink19.com/
She had it goth framed.
Plans to buy more.
the trouble with love is....
by blanket (02.05.04 06:52 pm)
www.cnn.com/
www.madcapcreations.com/
...one pill makes you bigger
& one makes you smaller
Re: Neo Goth
by penelope (02.06.04 06:14 pm)
She's cute but I dont think she'd like the Hummer. Trade it in for a Hybrid?
www.zhaba.com/
by zipthwung (02.06.04 06:17 pm)
Re: www.empty-records.com/
by all i got was this lousy (02.06.04 06:25 pm)
www.annie.ne.jp/
by zipthwung (02.06.04 06:44 pm)
Re: Neo Goth
by sybil (02.06.04 06:52 pm)
Hummer..haha.
Don't believe everything you read. Strictly 4 cylinder..and only when I have to. Everyplace is not as fortunate to be laid out like NYC. Too bad.
we need a hummer for this trip
by blanket (02.06.04 06:58 pm)
www.astrotours.net/
p.s. make sure it has a massive winch ;3)
I'm kinda up for a 6 stroke myself
by blanket (02.06.04 07:01 pm)
Re: Neo Goth
by sybil (02.06.04 07:18 pm)
www.maxbass.com/
my strings are twisted not wrapped
www.who.int/
by zip (02.06.04 07:58 pm)
I need something.
Re: Neo Goth
by asesino (02.08.04 10:54 am)
But getting back to the original point of this thread — Goth and its antecedents — what about memento mori, Victoriana, Mary Shelley, Bram Stoker, late Romanticism. In other words, is the impulse to Goth just cool kid rock n roll posturing, with no racial memory preceding Joy Division and the Batcave, or is it actively reaching back to the chthonic ooze?
Re: Neo Goth
by stephenlauf (02.08.04 01:43 pm)
lists1.cac.psu.edu/
for the record, Stilicho was half Vandal, half Roman, whereas Alaric was a Visigoth.
Re: Neo Goth
by alienbarbiebaby (02.08.04 01:52 pm)
Flat flat flat flat flat flat flat - is this all practice for high definition TV???Perspective is cool; I don't care to be a slave to a particular equation, but, come on: Flat flat flat flat flat flat flat- persepctive is a way of conveying emotional tension. Art art art art art art;Flat flat flat flat flat flat flat
Re: Neo Goth
by stephenlauf (02.08.04 05:43 pm)
Dark Shadows series 1985
www.museumpeace.com/
www.museumpeace.com/
www.museumpeace.com/
www.museumpeace.com/
www.museumpeace.com/
www.museumpeace.com/
www.museumpeace.com/
www.museumpeace.com/
www.museumpeace.com/
Re: Neo Goth:Rebel Rebel
by zip (02.08.04 07:52 pm)
In the Context of No Context?
Geography of Nowhere?
art was assumed to have a moral purpose, and should uplift us rather than disgust us.
....All this changed dramatically with the coming of Romanticism"
www.open.ac.uk/
Old School:
"The poet makes of himself a visionary through a long, extravagant and deliberate derangement of the senses. Every form of love, of anguish, of madness; he searches himself, swallowing every poison so that he may retain their quintessence. ... He reaches the unknown - and even if, driven to madness, he should end up having lost all understanding of his visions, nevertheless, he has seen them! Though he die while soaring among those ineffable and unnameable things, other frightful workers will follow; they will begin at the horizons where he succumbed."
-Rimbaud
"Sade adopts positions in the extreme. He intends to shock, but there was a gentle and idealistic side to him. You see where you stand when you read Sade. He puts the bottom to literature, the worst that could be written, the worst that could be imagined. It's good to know the enemy; knowing the bottom line of human nature is a very good sign of health at the end of this violent century."
—Sade biographer Neil Schaeffer,
Hermits used to be all the rage. Whose side are you on?
Re: Neo Goth
by DuChance (02.08.04 10:17 pm)
I like 2 beat them with a baseball bat, the aluminum kind. It sound so nice cruching the bones and chains, the little rich shits.
www.pleasuresean.com/
by zip (02.08.04 11:31 pm)
Beat on the brat
Beat on the brat
Beat on the brat with a baseball bat
Oh yeah, oh yeah, uh-oh.
What can you do?
What can you do?
With a brat like that always on your back
What can you do? (lose?)
Re: Neo is Wroth
by zip (02.09.04 01:08 am)
The killer in me is the killer in you
**********************
"OUTSIDE the art world bohemianism, or at least a semblance of it, has probably never looked so mainstream. "
www.theatlantic.com/
dive in
www.artnet.com/
I'll be waiting.
Re: Neo Goth
by rasputin (02.09.04 05:47 am)
"FLEE, my friend, into thy solitude! I see thee deafened with the
noise of the great men, and stung all over with the stings of the
little ones."
"Ye higher men, what think ye? Am I a soothsayer? Or a dreamer? Or
a drunkard? Or a dream-reader? Or a midnight-bell?"
www.thehedgemaze.com/
by zip (02.09.04 09:24 am)
I come from down in the valley
Where mister, when you're young
They bring you up to do like your daddy done
Me and Mary we met in high school
When she was just seventeen
We'd drive out of this valley down to where the fields where green
We'd go down to the river
And into the river we'd dive
Oh down to the river we'd ride
Then I got Mary pregnant
And, man, that was all she wrote
And for my 19th birthday I got a union card and a wedding coat
We went down to the courthouse
And the judge put it all to rest
No wedding day smiles, no walk down the aisle
No flowers, no wedding dress
That night we went down to the river
And into the river we'd dive
Oh down to the river we did ride
I got a job working construction for the Johnstown Company
But lately there ain't been much work on account of the economy
Now all them thing that seemed so important
Well, mister they vanished right into the air
Now I just act like I don't remember
Mary acts like she don't care
But I remember us riding in my brother's car
Her body tan and wet down at the reservoir
At night on them banks I'd lie awake
And pull her close just to feel each breath she'd take
Now those memories come back to haunt me
They haunt me like a curse
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true
Or is it something worse,
that sends me
Down to the river
though I know the river is dry
That sends me down to the river tonight
Down to the river
My baby and I
Oh down to the river we ride
Re: Neo Goth: Rasputin?
by DuChance (02.09.04 09:50 am)
Well, they killed u off 4 good reason, gruvna.
Re: Neo Gothic Westerns?
by zip (02.09.04 10:54 am)
Brautigan: "The Hawkline Monster - A Gothic Western"
A Gothic Western - if you can imagine such a thing - beautifully rendered in exquisite detail by the loving hand of Richard Brautigan. Greer and Cameron are cowboy hitmen with style, who have been hired to assassinate a monster living in a mansion. Surreal and fun, it makes a great introduction to the works of Brautigan. Highly Recommended.
www.whatyouget.com/
I read this a while back.
Guy killed himself. Too bad.
Re: Neo Goth
by all i got was this lousy (02.09.04 01:13 pm)
this coming from one who finds
UNREPENTANT EGO an engrossing, timely show ..
uh ick
query.nytimes.com/
The frighteningly beautiful, atrophying world that the designer Syd Mead created for Ridley Scott's ''Blade Runner'' is one of the most memorable visions in late 20th-century moviedom, and this exhibition meditates on its influence on art. Given the present fascination with gothic, horror and science fiction subjects, this shouldn't be difficult. But the assembled works are routine.
Re: Neo Goth
by all i got was this lousy (02.09.04 01:25 pm)
btw that was from January 23, 2004, Friday NYT
Re: Neo Goth
by zip (02.09.04 02:16 pm)
You can lead a whore to culture....
www.artnet.com/
www.artnet.com/
Care to compare? Contrast?
Re: Neo Goth
by asesino (02.09.04 02:39 pm)
Well, one's a review, and one's a feature. Apparently, when J. Saltz reprints his Voice reviews in artnet, they become features. Vive le transmogrification!!
Re: Neo Goth
by asesino (02.09.04 02:47 pm)
P.S. eldritch
Neither the review nor the feature uses the word "eldritch", a favorite of H.P. Lovecraft. This should be a requirement for all future writing on Neo Goth, horror, slasher etc. No "eldritch", no read,
Re: Neo Goth
by zip (02.09.04 05:45 pm)
Asesino, I read all of HP growing up. As I read TB now.
This goth thing is smart - not the art, necessarily (to each their own, from each whatever they care to bring to the table). As you know I sit in my fortress of solitude pondering non euclidian geometries and unameable eldritch horrors that lie beneath the artworld. Cthulhu F'taghn!.
Who's the moderator? One thing is for certain - I'm one of the elder gods, and I am not pleased. I'll sink Manhattan and even Talkback with my horrible ululations. Hound of Tindalos? Try US.
Re: Neo Goth
by zip (02.10.04 01:15 pm)
Re: evil art
by biggierat, 05.06.01 10:08 am
ok, so those artists pose a challenge to art by keping it real somehow. but these days, isn't that a little like gucci, prada etc appropriating the camouflage schtick years after it has done the rounds in various youth subcultures. the avant-garde does the hard yards and the fashion moguls move in and clean up by primming what was once edgey or threatening. art that rips off youth/pop/sub cultures just rehashes trash culture for the elite - a kind of classist carpet bagging. popular culture doesn't need art to tell it it is interesting and art doesn't need popular culture in order to be interesting.
Re: Neo Goth
by BPrevidi (02.10.04 01:25 pm)
What you're seeing and discussing are fashionable craft objects being mistaken for art. Worry not, they won't last.
Re: Neo Goth
by sharikov (02.12.04 03:35 am)
www.besthotelsresorts.com/
this is where it all started